In advance of the forthcoming BLACK SABBATH biography, NONE MORE BLACK: The continuing story of Black Sabbath 1980 to Present, I conducted a series of interviews with many of the musicians who have held membership in BLACK SABBATH. The following interview is with bassist Laurence Cottle whose entry into the world of BLACK SABBATH came with the "HEADLESS CROSS" album on which he played all bass parts and appeared in the classic video for the title track. In addition to his contributions to BLACK SABBATH proper, Cottle has also contributed his talents to several solo releases by various other members of BLACK SABBATH including Tony Iommi, Tony Martin and Cozy Powell. Currently residing just outside of London Cottle enjoys playing, as often as time permits, in many of the areas Jazz clubs and writing/recording music for use by EMI and other media concerns during the day.
DAVID LEE Is it correct that you were brought into the world of BLACK SABBATH through Cozy Powell?
LAURENCE COTTLE That's right yeah.
DL You had worked with him on previous projects?
LC Yeah, that was on the Don Airey album. He (Airey) did a solo project called K2 and I don't know how far that went or if it was even released but he got a load of good players in to do it and I was invited in and that is where I met Cozy. After that Cozy was producing a load of things and he got me involved on quite a few things including his solo album which is another album that I haven't seen or heard.(laughs) Is it out? Do you know?
DL I know that he has had a few out but I can't say that I have heard any of them, unfortunately.
LC Oh, well maybe they just don't get released in England or something but anyway, he was producing "HEADLESS CROSS" and he got me in to do that as well.
DL Was BLACK SABBATH something that you had much of an interest in before your having actually played with the band?
LC Well, my brother used to have a lot of Rock albums around the house that he was into when we were growing up, DEEP PURPLE and a little bit of BLACK SABBATH, so I heard it through him really.
DL Is this Richard Cottle?
LC That's right, yeah.
DL Yes, I saw that the two of you had played together in a group, it was during Mike Oldfield's "TUBULAR BELLS 2" wasn't it?
LC Oh yeah. We did quite a few things together actually. We did THE ALAN PARSONS PROJECT at the end of the eighties, I joined for the last two albums, and Richard did the two albums before that as well.
DL Were those touring bands?
LC No that was just studio work. They (TAPP) did tour with a new lineup about eight years ago but I wasn't involved with that and Richard wasn't either.
DL That was kind of the story with SABBATH as well, did you know from the beginning that you would play on the album but would not tour with the band?
LC Yeah. Initially I was just brought in to do a couple of tracks really and I just got on and did them and then Cozy got me back in and we finished off the rest of the album. It was all quite quick and I was overdubbing, I think, I wasn't playing with the band. I was just overdubbing on tracks that were already there.
DL Do you know who had played those original bass parts?
LC I have no idea.
DL Was there more material recorded than what ended up on the album?
LC I have no Idea. You see this is what is really going to be a problem because I don't really know that much about it. I don't even know what ended up on the album of what we did. I was working a lot at that time and we did it all in about three days. I was working in a Jazz club in London for that week, during the nights, so I was going to the studio in the days and doing the BLACK SABBATH stuff and then going and playing modern jazz in the nights which was actually a very nice juxtaposition.(laughs)
DL Was the SABBATH stuff easy for you to pick up given that you were doing the other stuff at night and really hadn't much of a background with SABBATH type stuff?
LC Yeah well, for a bass player, coping Tony's riffs and stuff like that was a fantastic opportunity, I loved it! It was great to be playing both of those styles.
DL The lead track, "HEADLESS CROSS" had a particularly traditional SABBATH feel to it, was that down for you as well or did you kind of improvise that from Tony's leads?
LC I don't remember but I presume it would have been one of Tony's lines, especially if it is typical of BLACK SABBATH. I am sure that it would have been actually.
DL Though you didn't tour for the album you were in the video for "HEADLESS CROSS" . . .
LC That's right! I do remember that!(laughs)
DL Was that one of the first video things that you had done?
LC Yeah, I think that it was actually. I had done things like, there is a TV program over here called "TOP OF THE POPS" that I had done a few sessions on that have become hits, it is just one of those programs that you just appear on and mime to the single. I played on an Eric Clapton track that was on the charts over here and we went on to this program and a few other TV shows but I think that is possibly the only actual video, that BLACK SABBATH one, that I have really done.
DL Which Eric Clapton track was that?
LC That is a good question!(laughs) "It is in the way that you use It" it was called and it is off of the "AUGUST" album from 1986.
DL Great track! It is funny, all this really influential hit music and you can't remember it! You must really be a working musician!(laughs) Tony Levin (KING CRIMSON, PETER GABRIEL, etc) is very much the same way, he can't remember if he played on something or not.(laughs)
LC Yeah! That is it really!(laughs)
DL As far as the album goes, how does "HEADLESS CROSS" rate, in your mind, with the other work that you have done?
LC Well, I am very proud of it, amongst others, it will be one that I shall show to my children.
DL From what I know of your work this is the only really Heavy Metal type of record that you have done?
LC I believe that it is, yeah.
DL Had you tried to stay away from that stuff or was the opportunity just never there?
LC I have never really been asked but that is the only really heavy thing that I have done funnily enough. All credit for that (working on the "HEADLESS CROSS ALBUM") goes to Tony Iommi for going with what he really wanted to do because he obviously felt that he didn't' need to use a star bassist. I am not a "name" player, but he obviously liked what I was doing and went with it just on the merit of what I was playing and not with what I am into or not into. He just liked what I was doing and took it at face value which is very commendable, because a few people that I work with feel a little bit weird that I have appeared on some Jazz album and when you mention the "J" word to some Pop or Rock people they can freak out a little. I think that they assume that you cant lay down some heavy grooves because you are a poofy Jazz player.(laughs)
DL Was Jazz your first love?
LC Actually what really turned me on when I first started playing was the seventies Rock scene in Britain, THE WHO and CREAM and things like that. Listening to John Entwistle and Jack Bruce but then I got into Jazz after that when a guy gave me a couple of records. I have enjoyed playing all sorts of styles of music. I like playing bass most of all, and in any context as long as it is coming from the right place, like Tony and the other guys that I have worked with, they are playing naturally and from their heart and that comes across.
DL I guess John Entwistle and Jack Bruce are names enough for influence but were there others?
LC Chris Squire, I loved YES. What was that tune he used to play, was it called, "The Fish?"
DL That sounds right.
LC Yeah, and who was the other guy that I used to listen to, Colin Hodgekinson. He was a fantastic British bass player who used to play with a group called BACKDOOR that did a lot of Rock and Blues stuff, I think he lives in Germany now. Another British guy called Norman Wat-roy who played with Ian Dury, he is still playing great. Those are some of the guys that I admire.
DL John Entwistle passed through a while back with this solo band. . .
LC Oh right, what was that like?
DL Very cool, that guy plays his bass like a piano for Christ's sake, it is impossible to keep up! Amazing to watch, he really is and a fun interview.(laughs)
LC Yeah, he is amazing. I would love to see the solo band.
DL The other guys that were in BLACK SABBATH at the time, have you kept up with them through the years?
LC Tony Martin did an album after he left SABBATH and I played on that. I remember recording that up in Birmingham somewhere and it was called, "UP WHERE I BELONG" or something like that. I don't know what happened with that but we did have some good stuff on there as I seem to remember. I haven't spoken to Tony Martin since then and that had to be ten years ago, at least. Obviously Cozy's tragedy was just devastating.
DL To say the least. It would have to be a bit more so for those who actually knew him though?
LC Oh yeah. Yeah, it freaked me out, it did.
DL When something like that happens do you start to have a keener sense of your own mortality?
LC Ah, yes but I have had a lot of that recently and it does make you feel a little. . .I don't know, there does seem to be a lot of it around at the moment, death that is.
DL Sadly yes.
LC Tony Iommi, I have only seen him in the Studio and on that video really, probably only just a week in total. A couple of days doing "HEADLESS CROSS" and a couple of days doing the "IOMMI" album and then one day down in Battle doing the video. What did you think of Tony Iommi's solo album?
DL Some of it I really liked a lot. I like that he used Skin from SKUNK ANANSIE and a few other people but in general it was kind of a transparent attempt at relevance with a younger audience. I would have preferred that he let the second record that he did with Glenn Hughes out. What did you think of it, the "IOMMI" record?
LC I loved it, I thought it was really good. I really enjoyed doing it. Again, it was just another quick job for me to do, just in and out but the producer was great to work with and he really knew what he wanted.
DL Was it another case of you going in and the music was already written for you?
LC There was nothing written I just figured out the bass parts by playing with the track. Everything else was there. I was the last thing to go on.
DL How many of the tracks do you play on?
LC Five or six, I think.
DL Was it Tony that called you up and said, "Come have a play?"
LC Well it was his manager, Ralph. I just went up there and splashed it straight down. Again I had a few gigs on and so I went up and did a day and then did a gig with Oscar Peterson's drummer in London and then back into the studio again the next day so it was, again, a great variety of playing different things.
DL So the entire IOMMI record was recorded in England?
LC Yeah, in Chipping/Norton Studios, very nice residential studios which I think has since closed.(laughs) That is just the way that studios are going these days. I was only up there for a couple of days really but it was good fun.
DL BLACK SABBATH is one of the more unique groups in terms of how the fans are extremely loyal to the band no matter, or maybe especially because of its really webbed group of individuals involved with it. Have you noticed that you have been pulled into that whole world, do you find yourself being referred to as, "That guy who played on the "HEADLESS CROSS" record?"
LC No, not at all.. but like you said, I am not asked to do this sort of Heavy music much so the kinds of gigs that people would come and see me do are maybe Funk gigs or possibly an improvised thing so people wouldn't know that I had even played with SABBATH. Some people are quite narrow-minded and they wouldn't think that I would do something with a Heavy band. Some times I don't let on because people can be so blinkered and think that it is detrimental to do something outside of what they consider to be "proper music" which is bollocks.(laughs)
DL It somehow dampens the purity of the Jazz or something, they think anyway?
LC Yeah, yeah, funny isn't it.
DL Have you fulfilled yourself musically at this point?
LC Oh no, no. There are a few things that I am quite proud of but no, I am still working very hard to learn things and I practice my instrument to try and play better and hopefully I will make some little statement of my own at some point and I think that is still in the future.
DL Is there anyone that you have yet to work with, that you could name now, that would bring you closer to that fulfillment?
LC I think that I need to fill my self in by writing my own music and performing it well rather than being associated with "names" really. It would be nice to be able to choose different people for different tracks if it was something that required it. It would be nice to call whomever I wanted but the fundamental thing would be that it would be my voice in the writing of the music.
DL Is there much that you have set away for those moments?
LC Yeah, things that I am developing and working on but it is just getting them out and making them sound like my music rather than an amalgam of different things that I have done.
DL Are you as busy now as you have been in the past?
LC Not as busy as I was in the mid eighties, I mean there was a fair bit of work around then but nothing compared to what it was like, from what I hear, in the sixties and seventies. It was great for musicians then but now there is not much work especially for studio musicians. I don't know why that is, maybe because of the computers and the sampling and all that stuff and people can just do everything themselves. You need only play a little bit of bass and sample a few good notes and then you can kick them around until they sound good. Maybe, I don't know, but everybody says the same thing, the work is just not there that was there in the early eighties. Most of my work now is done as a writer and I write mostly for EMI.
DL What is that work like?
LC I write incidental music that can be used on films or jingles and stuff like that, it is called "library music." They stick a load of tracks on a CD and when people call up for it they can send it through the Internet and they can use it for anything really. There is stuff that I have done for "THE OPRAH WINFREY SHOW" and for "FRIENDS" and a few other things that I can't remember but that is what my bread and butter is at that moment but I still try and play as much as possible.
DL Have you ever been sitting around watching the television and heard one of your compositions lilt by unexpected?
LC Oh yeah, that happens quite a lot actually. My wife recognizes my playing and my writing style and she will shout up to me, "Is that you?"(laughs) So that is fun. It is a real buzz to hear things that you have done cropping up in weird places.
DL OK, so back to SABBATH for a minute, the "HEADLESS CROSS" record credits the production to both Tony Iommi and Cozy Powell, were they both there twisting the knobs when your were playing or did they kind of come in at a later date to do their production bit?
LC Yeah, they were both there.
DL How much direction did they actually give to you as far as achieving a tone or sound that they wanted?
LC Lets see, well, I think that on that album, amplification wise, there was some sort of setup at the studio and I don't think that I used any of my own amps. They totally found the sound that was used on the record and I just used one of my favorite guitars at the time which, I still play, a Wal bass, a British made bass guitar. I just plugged it into some of these amps, Tony tweaked the knobs as did Cozy a bit and it was really Cozy that directed what I actually played and what not to play. (Imitating Cozy Powell) "No we will have none of that. . ."(laughs) So, yes, they were both there all the time.
DL I would imagine that having played with Cozy before allowed for the two of you to lock in a bit more, musically, than if you had just come in with completely fresh people?
LC Oh yeah, yeah. We had known each other quite well by that time and had done quite a few albums together and we got on very well. He knew what he wanted to get out of me and got it quite quickly.
DL SABBATH does, or did, seem to go through many a player with some coming and going more than once or twice. . .
LC Oh yeah.
DL Did the opportunity to come back into that world ever present itself?
LC Not really. I am not really up on what they have been doing, who is doing it now, is Geezer doing it now?
DL Yeah, they have had the original band with Ozzy going again for the last few years.
LC Great! Have you seen them?
DL Yes, several times just this past summer in fact.
LC Were they good?
DL The musical portion was quite good actually. They were trying out some new things with the old songs and did a new tune as well. Ozzy managed to forget some lyrics despite his teleprompter but, hey that is all fare in Rock and Roll I guess.(laughs) Tony was really good though, his playing has not diminished a bit over the years.
LC Yeah, he is incredible that guy, isn't he.
DL He, Blackmore, Page, Clapton, all immediately identifiable sounds and that is a rare thing.
LC Yeah, incredible.
DAVID LEE Is it correct that you were brought into the world of BLACK SABBATH through Cozy Powell?
LAURENCE COTTLE That's right yeah.
DL You had worked with him on previous projects?
LC Yeah, that was on the Don Airey album. He (Airey) did a solo project called K2 and I don't know how far that went or if it was even released but he got a load of good players in to do it and I was invited in and that is where I met Cozy. After that Cozy was producing a load of things and he got me involved on quite a few things including his solo album which is another album that I haven't seen or heard.(laughs) Is it out? Do you know?
DL I know that he has had a few out but I can't say that I have heard any of them, unfortunately.
LC Oh, well maybe they just don't get released in England or something but anyway, he was producing "HEADLESS CROSS" and he got me in to do that as well.
DL Was BLACK SABBATH something that you had much of an interest in before your having actually played with the band?
LC Well, my brother used to have a lot of Rock albums around the house that he was into when we were growing up, DEEP PURPLE and a little bit of BLACK SABBATH, so I heard it through him really.
DL Is this Richard Cottle?
LC That's right, yeah.
DL Yes, I saw that the two of you had played together in a group, it was during Mike Oldfield's "TUBULAR BELLS 2" wasn't it?
LC Oh yeah. We did quite a few things together actually. We did THE ALAN PARSONS PROJECT at the end of the eighties, I joined for the last two albums, and Richard did the two albums before that as well.
DL Were those touring bands?
LC No that was just studio work. They (TAPP) did tour with a new lineup about eight years ago but I wasn't involved with that and Richard wasn't either.
DL That was kind of the story with SABBATH as well, did you know from the beginning that you would play on the album but would not tour with the band?
LC Yeah. Initially I was just brought in to do a couple of tracks really and I just got on and did them and then Cozy got me back in and we finished off the rest of the album. It was all quite quick and I was overdubbing, I think, I wasn't playing with the band. I was just overdubbing on tracks that were already there.
DL Do you know who had played those original bass parts?
LC I have no idea.
DL Was there more material recorded than what ended up on the album?
LC I have no Idea. You see this is what is really going to be a problem because I don't really know that much about it. I don't even know what ended up on the album of what we did. I was working a lot at that time and we did it all in about three days. I was working in a Jazz club in London for that week, during the nights, so I was going to the studio in the days and doing the BLACK SABBATH stuff and then going and playing modern jazz in the nights which was actually a very nice juxtaposition.(laughs)
DL Was the SABBATH stuff easy for you to pick up given that you were doing the other stuff at night and really hadn't much of a background with SABBATH type stuff?
LC Yeah well, for a bass player, coping Tony's riffs and stuff like that was a fantastic opportunity, I loved it! It was great to be playing both of those styles.
DL The lead track, "HEADLESS CROSS" had a particularly traditional SABBATH feel to it, was that down for you as well or did you kind of improvise that from Tony's leads?
LC I don't remember but I presume it would have been one of Tony's lines, especially if it is typical of BLACK SABBATH. I am sure that it would have been actually.
DL Though you didn't tour for the album you were in the video for "HEADLESS CROSS" . . .
LC That's right! I do remember that!(laughs)
DL Was that one of the first video things that you had done?
LC Yeah, I think that it was actually. I had done things like, there is a TV program over here called "TOP OF THE POPS" that I had done a few sessions on that have become hits, it is just one of those programs that you just appear on and mime to the single. I played on an Eric Clapton track that was on the charts over here and we went on to this program and a few other TV shows but I think that is possibly the only actual video, that BLACK SABBATH one, that I have really done.
DL Which Eric Clapton track was that?
LC That is a good question!(laughs) "It is in the way that you use It" it was called and it is off of the "AUGUST" album from 1986.
DL Great track! It is funny, all this really influential hit music and you can't remember it! You must really be a working musician!(laughs) Tony Levin (KING CRIMSON, PETER GABRIEL, etc) is very much the same way, he can't remember if he played on something or not.(laughs)
LC Yeah! That is it really!(laughs)
DL As far as the album goes, how does "HEADLESS CROSS" rate, in your mind, with the other work that you have done?
LC Well, I am very proud of it, amongst others, it will be one that I shall show to my children.
DL From what I know of your work this is the only really Heavy Metal type of record that you have done?
LC I believe that it is, yeah.
DL Had you tried to stay away from that stuff or was the opportunity just never there?
LC I have never really been asked but that is the only really heavy thing that I have done funnily enough. All credit for that (working on the "HEADLESS CROSS ALBUM") goes to Tony Iommi for going with what he really wanted to do because he obviously felt that he didn't' need to use a star bassist. I am not a "name" player, but he obviously liked what I was doing and went with it just on the merit of what I was playing and not with what I am into or not into. He just liked what I was doing and took it at face value which is very commendable, because a few people that I work with feel a little bit weird that I have appeared on some Jazz album and when you mention the "J" word to some Pop or Rock people they can freak out a little. I think that they assume that you cant lay down some heavy grooves because you are a poofy Jazz player.(laughs)
DL Was Jazz your first love?
LC Actually what really turned me on when I first started playing was the seventies Rock scene in Britain, THE WHO and CREAM and things like that. Listening to John Entwistle and Jack Bruce but then I got into Jazz after that when a guy gave me a couple of records. I have enjoyed playing all sorts of styles of music. I like playing bass most of all, and in any context as long as it is coming from the right place, like Tony and the other guys that I have worked with, they are playing naturally and from their heart and that comes across.
DL I guess John Entwistle and Jack Bruce are names enough for influence but were there others?
LC Chris Squire, I loved YES. What was that tune he used to play, was it called, "The Fish?"
DL That sounds right.
LC Yeah, and who was the other guy that I used to listen to, Colin Hodgekinson. He was a fantastic British bass player who used to play with a group called BACKDOOR that did a lot of Rock and Blues stuff, I think he lives in Germany now. Another British guy called Norman Wat-roy who played with Ian Dury, he is still playing great. Those are some of the guys that I admire.
DL John Entwistle passed through a while back with this solo band. . .
LC Oh right, what was that like?
DL Very cool, that guy plays his bass like a piano for Christ's sake, it is impossible to keep up! Amazing to watch, he really is and a fun interview.(laughs)
LC Yeah, he is amazing. I would love to see the solo band.
DL The other guys that were in BLACK SABBATH at the time, have you kept up with them through the years?
LC Tony Martin did an album after he left SABBATH and I played on that. I remember recording that up in Birmingham somewhere and it was called, "UP WHERE I BELONG" or something like that. I don't know what happened with that but we did have some good stuff on there as I seem to remember. I haven't spoken to Tony Martin since then and that had to be ten years ago, at least. Obviously Cozy's tragedy was just devastating.
DL To say the least. It would have to be a bit more so for those who actually knew him though?
LC Oh yeah. Yeah, it freaked me out, it did.
DL When something like that happens do you start to have a keener sense of your own mortality?
LC Ah, yes but I have had a lot of that recently and it does make you feel a little. . .I don't know, there does seem to be a lot of it around at the moment, death that is.
DL Sadly yes.
LC Tony Iommi, I have only seen him in the Studio and on that video really, probably only just a week in total. A couple of days doing "HEADLESS CROSS" and a couple of days doing the "IOMMI" album and then one day down in Battle doing the video. What did you think of Tony Iommi's solo album?
DL Some of it I really liked a lot. I like that he used Skin from SKUNK ANANSIE and a few other people but in general it was kind of a transparent attempt at relevance with a younger audience. I would have preferred that he let the second record that he did with Glenn Hughes out. What did you think of it, the "IOMMI" record?
LC I loved it, I thought it was really good. I really enjoyed doing it. Again, it was just another quick job for me to do, just in and out but the producer was great to work with and he really knew what he wanted.
DL Was it another case of you going in and the music was already written for you?
LC There was nothing written I just figured out the bass parts by playing with the track. Everything else was there. I was the last thing to go on.
DL How many of the tracks do you play on?
LC Five or six, I think.
DL Was it Tony that called you up and said, "Come have a play?"
LC Well it was his manager, Ralph. I just went up there and splashed it straight down. Again I had a few gigs on and so I went up and did a day and then did a gig with Oscar Peterson's drummer in London and then back into the studio again the next day so it was, again, a great variety of playing different things.
DL So the entire IOMMI record was recorded in England?
LC Yeah, in Chipping/Norton Studios, very nice residential studios which I think has since closed.(laughs) That is just the way that studios are going these days. I was only up there for a couple of days really but it was good fun.
DL BLACK SABBATH is one of the more unique groups in terms of how the fans are extremely loyal to the band no matter, or maybe especially because of its really webbed group of individuals involved with it. Have you noticed that you have been pulled into that whole world, do you find yourself being referred to as, "That guy who played on the "HEADLESS CROSS" record?"
LC No, not at all.. but like you said, I am not asked to do this sort of Heavy music much so the kinds of gigs that people would come and see me do are maybe Funk gigs or possibly an improvised thing so people wouldn't know that I had even played with SABBATH. Some people are quite narrow-minded and they wouldn't think that I would do something with a Heavy band. Some times I don't let on because people can be so blinkered and think that it is detrimental to do something outside of what they consider to be "proper music" which is bollocks.(laughs)
DL It somehow dampens the purity of the Jazz or something, they think anyway?
LC Yeah, yeah, funny isn't it.
DL Have you fulfilled yourself musically at this point?
LC Oh no, no. There are a few things that I am quite proud of but no, I am still working very hard to learn things and I practice my instrument to try and play better and hopefully I will make some little statement of my own at some point and I think that is still in the future.
DL Is there anyone that you have yet to work with, that you could name now, that would bring you closer to that fulfillment?
LC I think that I need to fill my self in by writing my own music and performing it well rather than being associated with "names" really. It would be nice to be able to choose different people for different tracks if it was something that required it. It would be nice to call whomever I wanted but the fundamental thing would be that it would be my voice in the writing of the music.
DL Is there much that you have set away for those moments?
LC Yeah, things that I am developing and working on but it is just getting them out and making them sound like my music rather than an amalgam of different things that I have done.
DL Are you as busy now as you have been in the past?
LC Not as busy as I was in the mid eighties, I mean there was a fair bit of work around then but nothing compared to what it was like, from what I hear, in the sixties and seventies. It was great for musicians then but now there is not much work especially for studio musicians. I don't know why that is, maybe because of the computers and the sampling and all that stuff and people can just do everything themselves. You need only play a little bit of bass and sample a few good notes and then you can kick them around until they sound good. Maybe, I don't know, but everybody says the same thing, the work is just not there that was there in the early eighties. Most of my work now is done as a writer and I write mostly for EMI.
DL What is that work like?
LC I write incidental music that can be used on films or jingles and stuff like that, it is called "library music." They stick a load of tracks on a CD and when people call up for it they can send it through the Internet and they can use it for anything really. There is stuff that I have done for "THE OPRAH WINFREY SHOW" and for "FRIENDS" and a few other things that I can't remember but that is what my bread and butter is at that moment but I still try and play as much as possible.
DL Have you ever been sitting around watching the television and heard one of your compositions lilt by unexpected?
LC Oh yeah, that happens quite a lot actually. My wife recognizes my playing and my writing style and she will shout up to me, "Is that you?"(laughs) So that is fun. It is a real buzz to hear things that you have done cropping up in weird places.
DL OK, so back to SABBATH for a minute, the "HEADLESS CROSS" record credits the production to both Tony Iommi and Cozy Powell, were they both there twisting the knobs when your were playing or did they kind of come in at a later date to do their production bit?
LC Yeah, they were both there.
DL How much direction did they actually give to you as far as achieving a tone or sound that they wanted?
LC Lets see, well, I think that on that album, amplification wise, there was some sort of setup at the studio and I don't think that I used any of my own amps. They totally found the sound that was used on the record and I just used one of my favorite guitars at the time which, I still play, a Wal bass, a British made bass guitar. I just plugged it into some of these amps, Tony tweaked the knobs as did Cozy a bit and it was really Cozy that directed what I actually played and what not to play. (Imitating Cozy Powell) "No we will have none of that. . ."(laughs) So, yes, they were both there all the time.
DL I would imagine that having played with Cozy before allowed for the two of you to lock in a bit more, musically, than if you had just come in with completely fresh people?
LC Oh yeah, yeah. We had known each other quite well by that time and had done quite a few albums together and we got on very well. He knew what he wanted to get out of me and got it quite quickly.
DL SABBATH does, or did, seem to go through many a player with some coming and going more than once or twice. . .
LC Oh yeah.
DL Did the opportunity to come back into that world ever present itself?
LC Not really. I am not really up on what they have been doing, who is doing it now, is Geezer doing it now?
DL Yeah, they have had the original band with Ozzy going again for the last few years.
LC Great! Have you seen them?
DL Yes, several times just this past summer in fact.
LC Were they good?
DL The musical portion was quite good actually. They were trying out some new things with the old songs and did a new tune as well. Ozzy managed to forget some lyrics despite his teleprompter but, hey that is all fare in Rock and Roll I guess.(laughs) Tony was really good though, his playing has not diminished a bit over the years.
LC Yeah, he is incredible that guy, isn't he.
DL He, Blackmore, Page, Clapton, all immediately identifiable sounds and that is a rare thing.
LC Yeah, incredible.
